Fantasy Toy Box

For sure - if we do end up removing them, it'll be on the back of a more comprehensive and explicit ethics policy, so at the earliest, that's 'weeks' away. It's a great question though. Honestly, the next question for the site is gonna be around relisting Delices Defendus... Another minefield.

While this might not necessarily provide clarity, I hope it at least provides some context and perspective about what I'm thinking about and what my goals are when adding / removing vendors. It's so much more messy than it seems, but I'm always interested in others' perspective.

And yes - please do write feedback! I read it and do take it into consideration! I think 3 different vendors have been de-listed (and many others added) from feedback! This should be a community resource first and foremost.

Part 4: What Do

Right now, I'm talking to contributors and editors that help with the site for some insight and ideas. I'd like to be able to draw firmer boundaries around the 'Ethics' question, and also provide some outline for reconciliation. This is not the first or last time I've seen this.

There are other vendors that people have brought forth issues with as well. TF is far from the first and it probably won't be the last. When deciding to delist them, that balance needs to be considered very carefully and it's being considered as I type this.

Other still insist I shouldn't list BD and other big stores next to indies because they already have enough of a platform by way of marketing and name recognition. That's probably true, but again, the balance of harms for the consumer here is compromised badly if I would adhere to that philosophy.

I've had several people ask me to remove Bad Dragon and Weredog from the index. BD's history is not squeaky clean and I'm keenly aware of that. However, even thought I believe a lot of the issues people bring forward about BD, the balance of harms weighs in the favor of keeping them listed.

So, when deciding to delist (or refusing to list) a vendor, that consideration must deeply consider the balance of harms here: "Is this in service for the fantasy toy community - both creators and customers?"

That answer is rarely so clear.

#3: The Balance of Harms

Fantasy Toy Box is definitely trying to raise awareness of Independent Makers, but the original goal here was to provide a place for people to discover safe, quality toys form vendors who will deliver with the idea that casting a wider net is generally a good idea.

To that end, Nothosaur arguably has a path to redemption. It's a path that scales with their crimes, so maybe we'll revisit them in 2032 or so, but if they clean up their act and keep themselves out of shit, I'd at least consider it. (I also wouldn't bet on it in that particular case).

As said, that toy is very distasteful, but TF removed it, and a big reason they were not listed a year ago is because of that toy.

There needs to be a path to redemption somehow, and the best tool I have for that right now is 'keep your nose clean' + 'time'.

2: Re-integration and reconciliation.

If someone does a bad thing in the community, what are the terms of reintegration? This is another judgement call that cannot be measured cleanly. I would suggest atonement is time, the function of which is determined by the gravity of the crime.

The point is, this is a messy, complex issue and the reason I don't want to get involved except in the most extreme cases is because it becomes very fuzzy very fast. Truthfully, if they still had that toy listed, they'd probably be DQ'd, which leads us to...

There are plenty of people who insist I don't list BD / Weredog because of various complaints about Varka. It's by far the most requested vendor I pull. Put a pin in that - we'll talk about that in Part 3.

Other questions we have to ponder here are things like, 'What if they use AI art on their site?' (This is ~probably~ a DQ. Likely depends on 'what' and 'how much') or 'What if they are buying mass-produced molds and not using original designs?' (I'm still not sure about this one).

Generally though, I don't want to be the police here. It's hard to setup an ever-evolving policy that satisfies everyone. I want you to choose the vendor(s) you choose for your reasons, as long as I'm directing you to vendors that sell body safe toys and are very likely going to deliver.

Nothosaur is probably the highest profile de-listing on the site. They are not good players in the space, but overt bestiality is one of those 'Ethical Lines' that is drawn in the sand. It helps that it's a clean pass / fail.

This is also why there is a lot more emphasis on body safe materials and generally being a 'good player' to other vendors in this space. It's easy to pass/fail these kinds of checks. The things I have to make a judgement call on are generally very extreme and/or illegal.

1: The 'Ethical Lines'

When I started the site, the goal was to avoid 'vendor politics' as much as possible to serve the larger goal of indexing the fantasy toy world. I didn't want to be the 'picker and chooser' of vendors except in extreme cases. To some degree, this is unavoidable.

This is a complex conversation and doesn't fit into microblogging, so this is a short summary that requires a good faith reading.

The question here in 3 parts is:

1. Where do we draw 'ethical lines'
2. What does 're-integration' / reconciliation look like
3. How do we manage the 'balance of harms'

Finally, we might revisit the general openness of our vendor policies - As written, we'll list basically any store that's putting forth an effort to make quality toys today. Maybe that's worth reviewing more carefully as time goes on.

For clarity here, the guidelines(in a nutshell) are:

1. Must be good players in the sex toy space. (No Frivolous Lawsuits, Legal takedowns, no stealing toys, etc.)
2. No Life Casts
3. No Unsafe Materials

Even if it was TF that made the toy, 'extremely distasteful toy' does not rise to the point of exclusion from Fantasy Toy Box. We have to be pretty careful about playing 'fantasy sex toy police' and we generally er on side of listing a store (unless they break the aforementioned guidelines).

Not sure - I know I've heard someone made something like that - The thing is that as far as Fantasy Toy Box is concerned, there is a balance of harms here were 'index quality sites' tends to be the most important determinate. There are ethical lines that can't be crossed per our vendor guidelines.

For those of you who contacted us a month ago basically saying the same thing, I know it's frustrating to feel like it took a long time to act on that feedback, but it was that feedback that got us to investigate further into the operation. We want to act with confidence, not with our gut!

We've contacted them and have required quite stringent proof of the contrary to be relisted. I've historically taken their word for it, but when the community has receipts of the contrary, I'll pull vendors off the site.

New Update - First, we are happy to add @twistedfantasies.bsky.social to the index!

Second, we've removed 'Delices Defendus'. We've got a few reports that they are not pouring their own toys, and a couple people spent the time to offer convincing proof of that - they've been removed from the index

This is not irredeemable, but you are going to have to go above and beyond here to rectify this. Ethics matter a great deal in this space and people have a long, long memory.

Right the ship and do your due diligence and you can make this work yet.

As others have said (and as I'm sure you've noticed), the indie fantasy toy space is not tolerant of 'shenanigans'. Where you are sourcing molds, who you are dealing with, how you use AI (A free tip: Don't) are going to be put under immediate scrutiny.

New update!

There were a variety of bugs and data issues that came with the refactor - those have been largely addressed! Thank you everyone who reported issues :D.

A known issue here is that changing the a filter value always jerks you to the top of the page. Fix incoming eventually...