Zeno Rogue

Diablo and Path of Exile are pretty much Angband, and much more popular than FTL/Isaac/Spelunky/DD.

Uh, Path of Exile is closer to the roguelike genre than Isaac. Diablo was meant to be basically a clone of the games that started the roguelike genre, and Path of Exile does not get far off either. What you call "roguelike elements" here seems to be more Isaac-like elements.

Roguelikes typically have mid-to-long runs, self-imposed permanent death, and no boost between runs. See e.g. Moonring or Caves of Qud. Games with short runs, upgrade gambling, heavy metaprogression marketed as roguelike do not have much to do with them, roguelike fans call them "roguelites".

In metroidvania games you also would be unlikely to win if death meant going back to the beginning. I have no experience with randomizers but AFAIK they are typically based on metroidvania-ish games and don't force resets. If you played Hades with checkpoints, you'd also win quite easily, I guess.

But roguelikes are also designed to be always beatable. As in, generating a level with no way to the stairs to the new level would be very bad. That would be the analog of the randomizer logic. (You seem to be talking about pseudo-gambling games marketing themselves as roguelike, not roguelikes.)

{"ToME", "Maj'Eyal", "May Eyal", "Majeyal", "maj eyal", "majeyal", "maj'eyal"}, {"C:DDA", "CDDA", "Dark Days Ahead", "dark days ahead", "Dark days ahead", "Cataclysm"}, {"Elin/Elona", "Elin", "Elona"}, {"Trithius", "trithius"}, {"Tangledeep", "tangledeep"}, {"Stoneshard", "StoneShard", "StonesHard", "stoneshard"}, {"Soulash", "soulash"}, {"JH/DRL", "Jupiter Hell", "DoomRL", "Doom the Roguelike", "D**mRL", "D***RL", "Doom, the Roguelike", "Doom the roguelike", "Doom, the roguelike", "Doom: the roguelike", "doom the roguelike", "doom, the roguelike", "doom: the roguelike"}, {"Golden Krone Hotel", "Golden krone hotel", "golden krone hotel"}, {"Path of Achra", "Path of achra", "path of achra"}, {"Dwarf Fortress", "dwarf fortress", "Dwarf fortress"}, {"TGGW", "The Ground Gives Way"}, {"Iter Vehemens ad Necem"}, {"Brogue"},

Of course they did, quite a lot actually, but I did not search for it. Here are some other roguelikes.

Thanks for your observation -- here is the intended one:

stop complaining

But they do have lots of RPG in them? Caves of Qud, Moonring, presumably Elin and Approaching Infinity (which I have not played) are recent and have lots of RPG in them.

Note: this is just a text search, so "optional permadeath" is also counted as "permadeath", and "no metaprogression" is also counted as "metaprogression". Berlin Interpretation, permadeath, optional permadeath, procedural generation, metaprogression, no metaprogression, three upgrades, repetitive, masochist, synergy, simulation, arcade, gambling, waste of time

It seems that roguelite players view gambling, repetitiveness, masochism, wasting time, and arcade more favorably than roguelike fans, while roguelike concepts are more positive in roguelike reviews. Metaprogression and picking between three upgrades do not seem that cool.

Same for other games. In the earlier version I was puzzled why "spelunky" mentioners would have such a low opinion about roguelikes, but that was just a game considered a Spelunky ripoff being mistagged as "traditional roguelike".

A roguelike mentioned in the review. (Must not be the same game/series as the game reviewed to count.) It seems that other games cannot compete with DCSS. Also Dredmor players seem weirdly negative about everything.

("OG Rogue" means literal text "OG Rogue" or "(o|O)riginal Rogue")

The numbers are: percentage of positive reviews mentioning the given keyword; total number of such reviews; total playtime of these reviews. RTS are not dead, they are still played more than their oversaturated roguelite descendants. (Breakdown by the date the review was updated.)

Roguelike = tagged with "traditional roguelike"; roguelite = not roguelike but tagged with roguelite/action roguelike/roguelike; Untagged = some big roguelike-inspired hits such as Terraria, Path of Exile or Project Zomboid, picked manually. Metroidvania and RTS tags for comparison. (+manual fixes)

The following spellings count as "roguelike": "roguelike", "Roguelike", "rogue-like", "Rogue-like", "rogueLIKE", "RogueLIKE", "rogue-LIKE", "Rogue-LIKE", "rogue like", "Rogue like". Similar for roguelite, rougelike, and rougelite rows.

Some fun with searching for keywords in Steam reviews. People who misspell #roguelike as "rougelike" consistently review everything higher. [thread]

Then it seems they would consider Diablo to be separate from CRPGs too?

It seems some context is missing here: what was the voting procedure? I see no roguelikes which seems surprising.

But did ever play a roguelike? Or games marketed as roguelike to make roguelikes look bad?

Dominion feels closer to roguelike than StS (while spirelikes are closer to The Binding of Isaac). My guess is that fans of actual roguelikes would prefer Dominion to StS.

Neither the tags nor the common use.

"Traditional roguelike" tag works well enough indeed (and is mostly used for games which do not enforce permadeath), but roguelike/roguelite tags give no information about metaprogression or any other meaningful characteristics.

Almost nobody actually uses it though. People who respect the OG genre use the traditional meaning. People who don't just say roguelike, confusion intended. If they wanted clarity they'd say "synergy builder" or "metaprogression-focused" or "heavily inspired by roguelikes" or something like that.

I think they meant ADOM to be strictly adherent. You mean non-modality? I care about non-modality and I consider ADOM non-modal. BI just did not explain non-modality well. It only explained permadeath and randomness well, while pre-Berlin roguelike definitions tended to not even mention permadeath.

Then Rogue Legacy marketed itself as "roguelite" and that term got popular.

And I would rather say that roguelike-likes follow BI (by picking the parts of it they like) while roguelikes do not follow BI; BI follows roguelikes which already existed for 30 years when BI was written.

AFAIU the origin of "roguelite" is gatekeepers who called games "roguelite" simply because they were accessible (actually had graphics etc). They did not leave much trace so hard to check. The core roguelike community never used "roguelite" and called games like Spelunky or FTL "roguelike-like".

I recognize roguelike in games which are similar to action games but you control time. So Time4Cat fits, and the few Berlin clauses it still upholds can be probably easily designed out.

An RPG using the exploration/combat system popularized by the game Rogue. Try Moonring for example. Free roguelikes can be played forever. It appears that the game industry hates that, so they are promoting troll definitions and calling everything roguelike without any sense to confuse people.

Please do not call them roguelikes, and they are closer to gambling than arcade (I think arcade fans would be offended). But agreed otherwise.

But in a roguelike way, or in a rogue-unlike way? Minecraft is closer to roguelike than what is marketed as such currently.